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	<title>Comments on: Valorizing the Lawless: the Christian Persecution Complex</title>
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	<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/</link>
	<description>Democracy in America</description>
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		<title>By: Meghan McCain Throws Huckabee Under the Bus; Palin Should Follow &#171; Submitted to a Candid World</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-11092</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Meghan McCain Throws Huckabee Under the Bus; Palin Should Follow &#171; Submitted to a Candid World]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-11092</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] McCain, of course, is right. Huckabee is a proud theocrat, someone who makes no apologies for putting fundamentalist notions of religious morality ahead of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] McCain, of course, is right. Huckabee is a proud theocrat, someone who makes no apologies for putting fundamentalist notions of religious morality ahead of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-3837</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-3837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[See, I ain&#039;t so bad :-).  But I may need to work on presenting myself that way in the first instance.  Thanks to you for keeping me honest.

And &quot;wacky fringe&quot; sounds fine by me!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, I ain&#8217;t so bad :-).  But I may need to work on presenting myself that way in the first instance.  Thanks to you for keeping me honest.</p>
<p>And &#8220;wacky fringe&#8221; sounds fine by me!</p>
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		<title>By: Collin</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-3842</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Collin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-3842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perfectly stated - the objection was about the attitude on the relationship between &quot;God&#039;s law&quot; and man&#039;s.  I&#039;m completely with you there.  Sorry I was being stubborn.  I think I ended up responding more to what I was afraid you were saying rather than to what you were actually saying.

And, how blog-commenter of me to complain about what to call this group, when I can&#039;t think of an adequate way to refer to them myself.  I see what you mean.  The way I think of them, &quot;Wacky Fringe,&quot; doesn&#039;t have a very academic ring to it.  :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perfectly stated &#8211; the objection was about the attitude on the relationship between &#8220;God&#8217;s law&#8221; and man&#8217;s.  I&#8217;m completely with you there.  Sorry I was being stubborn.  I think I ended up responding more to what I was afraid you were saying rather than to what you were actually saying.</p>
<p>And, how blog-commenter of me to complain about what to call this group, when I can&#8217;t think of an adequate way to refer to them myself.  I see what you mean.  The way I think of them, &#8220;Wacky Fringe,&#8221; doesn&#8217;t have a very academic ring to it.  :)</p>
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		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-3841</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-3841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I don&#039;t think that Freshwater&#039;s little flesh-burning stint is emblematic of fundamentalists or evangelicals, or the intersection of those two sets, I do think the idea that the law of God ought to govern in society - and that people should resist the law of the U.S. accordingly - is fairly typical of the fundamentalist evangelical group.

But I&#039;m aware of the problem with the definition.  Since I talk about the true crazies of the Christian right a lot, I need a good way to identify them.  I would say that that group is the intersection of fundamentalist &amp; evangelical, but you&#039;re right that fundamentalist is relative.  Is there a better way to define them though?  You&#039;re very right that clarity is important.  My family and I are liberal Christians, and we wouldn&#039;t want Freshwater&#039;s crimes attributed to our beliefs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I don&#8217;t think that Freshwater&#8217;s little flesh-burning stint is emblematic of fundamentalists or evangelicals, or the intersection of those two sets, I do think the idea that the law of God ought to govern in society &#8211; and that people should resist the law of the U.S. accordingly &#8211; is fairly typical of the fundamentalist evangelical group.</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m aware of the problem with the definition.  Since I talk about the true crazies of the Christian right a lot, I need a good way to identify them.  I would say that that group is the intersection of fundamentalist &amp; evangelical, but you&#8217;re right that fundamentalist is relative.  Is there a better way to define them though?  You&#8217;re very right that clarity is important.  My family and I are liberal Christians, and we wouldn&#8217;t want Freshwater&#8217;s crimes attributed to our beliefs.</p>
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		<title>By: Collin</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-3840</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Collin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:19:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-3840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I said &quot;or any subset of [Christians.]&quot;  You responded by saying that you believe that the branding guy is representative of &quot;that sect,&quot; meaning, I guess, Evangelical Christians.

According to a study referred to on the Volokh Conspiracy (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1214105408.shtml) (fascinating post, btw) 33% of Americans identify themselves as Evangelical Christians.  If a group that broad were really as nutty as you say they are, brandings like this would be so common as not to be newsworthy.  Though I don&#039;t classify myself as such, when you say &quot;Evangelical&quot; you are not referring to a 1% snake-handling fringe.  And what &quot;fundamentalist&quot; means is sort of in the eye of the beholder.

I don&#039;t think I agree with PC&#039;s classification (I think Evangelical is far broader than fundamentalist) but I think clarity is important.

More statistics (which truly blew my mind) on the American public from the Institute for Jewish and Community research (Volokh has the striking comparisons to numbers among academics)
93% believe in God
85% identify with a particular denomination
85% say religion is very or somewhat important in their lives
86% want their children to receive religious training]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I said &#8220;or any subset of [Christians.]&#8221;  You responded by saying that you believe that the branding guy is representative of &#8220;that sect,&#8221; meaning, I guess, Evangelical Christians.</p>
<p>According to a study referred to on the Volokh Conspiracy (<a href="http://www.volokh.com/posts/1214105408.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.volokh.com/posts/1214105408.shtml</a>) (fascinating post, btw) 33% of Americans identify themselves as Evangelical Christians.  If a group that broad were really as nutty as you say they are, brandings like this would be so common as not to be newsworthy.  Though I don&#8217;t classify myself as such, when you say &#8220;Evangelical&#8221; you are not referring to a 1% snake-handling fringe.  And what &#8220;fundamentalist&#8221; means is sort of in the eye of the beholder.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I agree with PC&#8217;s classification (I think Evangelical is far broader than fundamentalist) but I think clarity is important.</p>
<p>More statistics (which truly blew my mind) on the American public from the Institute for Jewish and Community research (Volokh has the striking comparisons to numbers among academics)<br />
93% believe in God<br />
85% identify with a particular denomination<br />
85% say religion is very or somewhat important in their lives<br />
86% want their children to receive religious training</p>
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		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-3839</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-3839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ugh!  US applying Shari&#039;a law would be bad too.  The problem is, I don&#039;t know about that.  I think ProCon is right, above, to urge me to make sure I characterize these types as fundamentalist evangelicals.  While I DO think he&#039;s representative of that sect, I&#039;d no more impute his failings to Christianity as a whole than I would from terrorists to Muslims as a whole.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh!  US applying Shari&#8217;a law would be bad too.  The problem is, I don&#8217;t know about that.  I think ProCon is right, above, to urge me to make sure I characterize these types as fundamentalist evangelicals.  While I DO think he&#8217;s representative of that sect, I&#8217;d no more impute his failings to Christianity as a whole than I would from terrorists to Muslims as a whole.</p>
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		<title>By: Collin</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-3838</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Collin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-3838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know as well as I do that the guy who branded students represents no other group than that of Crazy People and that his students have Stockholm Syndrome.

It&#039;s unfair to Christians to take him as representative of any subset of them.  His behavior was illegal, destructive, and without basis in any mainstream Christian doctrine.  I&#039;m not holding my breath to see you write about how Muslim suicide bombers are a symptom of a &quot;The Muslim Persecution Complex.&quot;  But, while talk of changing the Constitution to make it more Christian has become about as idle as talk of reparations for slavery (both, in my cynical view, just a way to get votes) there&#039;s a case right now (CRAP I can&#039;t remember the name - I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve seen it) where one side is arguing that a US Court ought to apply Shari&#039;a law.  I think that&#039;s the more &quot;live&quot; confrontation between our government and religion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know as well as I do that the guy who branded students represents no other group than that of Crazy People and that his students have Stockholm Syndrome.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s unfair to Christians to take him as representative of any subset of them.  His behavior was illegal, destructive, and without basis in any mainstream Christian doctrine.  I&#8217;m not holding my breath to see you write about how Muslim suicide bombers are a symptom of a &#8220;The Muslim Persecution Complex.&#8221;  But, while talk of changing the Constitution to make it more Christian has become about as idle as talk of reparations for slavery (both, in my cynical view, just a way to get votes) there&#8217;s a case right now (CRAP I can&#8217;t remember the name &#8211; I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve seen it) where one side is arguing that a US Court ought to apply Shari&#8217;a law.  I think that&#8217;s the more &#8220;live&#8221; confrontation between our government and religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-3836</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Jolly good point :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jolly good point :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Progressive Conservative</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/06/22/valorizing-the-lawless-the-christian-persecution-complex/#comment-3835</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Progressive Conservative]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=259#comment-3835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ames, I would caution you to not use &#039;fundamentalist&#039; to freely. What you will see is that the root of all this silliness is evangelicalism. To be sure, most/all evangelicals are fundamentalists, but not all fundamentalists are evangelicals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ames, I would caution you to not use &#8216;fundamentalist&#8217; to freely. What you will see is that the root of all this silliness is evangelicalism. To be sure, most/all evangelicals are fundamentalists, but not all fundamentalists are evangelicals.</p>
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