Comments on: The Evangelical Re-Invention of John McCain, and the Sad Paradox of Fundamentalist Family Values http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/ "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.... let Facts be submitted to a candid world." Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:02:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Bay of Fundie » Blog Archive » Carnival of the Liberals with Senator John McCain http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4497 Bay of Fundie » Blog Archive » Carnival of the Liberals with Senator John McCain Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:00:12 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4497 [...] Re-Invention of John McCain, and the Sad Paradox of Fundamentalist Family Values” over at Submitted to a Candid World. It says (in part): McCain attempts to mask his endorsement of the religious right mainline by [...] [...] Re-Invention of John McCain, and the Sad Paradox of Fundamentalist Family Values” over at Submitted to a Candid World. It says (in part): McCain attempts to mask his endorsement of the religious right mainline by [...]

]]> By: Have you ever seen the Tardosaurus? (And other batshittery…links post!) « break the terror http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4496 Have you ever seen the Tardosaurus? (And other batshittery…links post!) « break the terror Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:20:29 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4496 [...] I said, el retard. Ames at Submitted to a Candid World frames the larger implications of pandering to right-wing nutwads on this issue, both for John McCain’s campaign and for the [...] [...] I said, el retard. Ames at Submitted to a Candid World frames the larger implications of pandering to right-wing nutwads on this issue, both for John McCain’s campaign and for the [...]

]]> By: Progressive Conservative http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4495 Progressive Conservative Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:12:04 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4495 DM, I am not voting with evangelicals...they are voting with me. There IS a difference. And I don't see how voting for Obama helps the Republican cause. DM,

I am not voting with evangelicals…they are voting with me. There IS a difference.

And I don’t see how voting for Obama helps the Republican cause.

]]> By: didionsmommy http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4494 didionsmommy Thu, 17 Jul 2008 18:58:09 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4494 yes, oneiroi ... ames is right. (again!) pc ... i have commented on your site, that if i were an evangelical i would be hoppin' mad at karl rove and w, et al. precisely because there aren't another dozen or so amendments to the constitution protecting and promoting the evangelical agenda* ... nonetheless, the evangelical agenda continues to frighten, annoy, enrage, and disgust me because it distracts from real bipartisan efforts to address important social and political issues. it's like a tumor that flares up and goes into remission and flares up and ... bottom line: the best thing to do is to remove it ... voting with evangelicals does not remove the tumor. as for standing up and telling the rnc you're mad as hell and you're not going to take it anymore ... you can do that by voting for obama. *there are places evangelicals have made REAL inroads ... the death-by-attrition attack on abortion rights in red states ... oh, and then there was the kansas state school board deciding evolution was flawed ... yes, oneiroi … ames is right. (again!)

pc … i have commented on your site, that if i were an evangelical i would be hoppin’ mad at karl rove and w, et al. precisely because there aren’t another dozen or so amendments to the constitution protecting and promoting the evangelical agenda* …

nonetheless, the evangelical agenda continues to frighten, annoy, enrage, and disgust me because it distracts from real bipartisan efforts to address important social and political issues. it’s like a tumor that flares up and goes into remission and flares up and … bottom line: the best thing to do is to remove it …

voting with evangelicals does not remove the tumor.

as for standing up and telling the rnc you’re mad as hell and you’re not going to take it anymore … you can do that by voting for obama.

*there are places evangelicals have made REAL inroads … the death-by-attrition attack on abortion rights in red states … oh, and then there was the kansas state school board deciding evolution was flawed …

]]> By: Ames http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4493 Ames Thu, 17 Jul 2008 12:39:27 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4493 an example, oneiroi: while no-one responded to your first comment on this thread, notice that it did guide the debate, very well, in fact. an example, oneiroi: while no-one responded to your first comment on this thread, notice that it did guide the debate, very well, in fact.

]]> By: Progressive Conservative http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4492 Progressive Conservative Thu, 17 Jul 2008 03:01:03 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4492 I think i could say the same about liberal environmental groups and atheists.... GOP candidates have to give them lip service. Bush was one of them and what did he do for them in 8 years? Abortion is still legal. there's no constitional ban on gay marriage. ID isn't being required as part of No Child Left Behind. For all the talk about how Bush was in bed with those guys he sure didn't do much to make them happy. I suspect McCain will do even less. I think i could say the same about liberal environmental groups and atheists….

GOP candidates have to give them lip service. Bush was one of them and what did he do for them in 8 years? Abortion is still legal. there’s no constitional ban on gay marriage. ID isn’t being required as part of No Child Left Behind.

For all the talk about how Bush was in bed with those guys he sure didn’t do much to make them happy. I suspect McCain will do even less.

]]> By: didionsmommy http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4491 didionsmommy Thu, 17 Jul 2008 02:09:38 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4491 i remember that post very well, and, certainly, i don't doubt your disdain for loony evangelicals ... but, i have to admit, i don't fully understand voting with them ... you say that predictable voting blocs are a sure way to get ignored, but the evangelical wing of the republican party has proven exactly the opposite. they have made themselves so important, any and all republican politicians HAVE to pay attention to them. hence, we have john mccain painfully trying to recreate himself. i remember that post very well, and, certainly, i don’t doubt your disdain for loony evangelicals … but, i have to admit, i don’t fully understand voting with them …

you say that predictable voting blocs are a sure way to get ignored, but the evangelical wing of the republican party has proven exactly the opposite. they have made themselves so important, any and all republican politicians HAVE to pay attention to them. hence, we have john mccain painfully trying to recreate himself.

]]> By: Progressive Conservative http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4487 Progressive Conservative Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:10:58 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4487 DM, believe me, I'm trying. There are more of us out there, but we are a disjointed group by nature. By the way, I found some more of my writing to back up my anti-loony-evangelicals street cred. <a href="http://thebigstick.wordpress.com/2008/06/09/in-protest-of-evangelicalism-part-1-christians/" rel="nofollow">Evangelical Christianity</a> DM, believe me, I’m trying. There are more of us out there, but we are a disjointed group by nature.

By the way, I found some more of my writing to back up my anti-loony-evangelicals street cred.

Evangelical Christianity

]]> By: didionsmommy http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4490 didionsmommy Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:33:00 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4490 i love the last quote of the <i>seattle times</i> article ... <i>Braun, the seminary student, said he's not totally committed to any candidate yet. "I just keep thinking, if Jesus were alive now, he wouldn't necessarily be voting Republican," he said.</i> good to know young christians are examining their faith in a global context and that their self-righteousness is still intact. the article indicates that these young people are "leaving" the gop for a multitude of reasons ... some of them because mccain isn't a proven evangelical conservative ... <i>Shane Claiborne, a Philadelphia Christian activist and author of "Jesus for President: Politics for Ordinary Radicals," has a different name for these folks: "political misfits." Claiborne has traveled around the country the past several years, speaking and preaching mostly to college-age Christians who are "both socially conservative and globally aware." That makes them disenchanted with both major parties, he said. "It's not about liberal or conservative, or Democrats or Republicans," he said. "I don't think it's a new evangelical left. ... There's a new evangelical stuck-in-the-middle." UW communications professor David Domke said some young evangelicals are breaking with the GOP for the same reasons many people broke from the party in the 2006 legislative elections — the unpopular war in Iraq; the Bush administration's abysmal approval ratings; or, now, because of the tanking economy. Others broke from the party when John McCain, who hasn't held much appeal for evangelicals in the past, became the presumptive nominee. </i> yes, the article says other young people say there is "something more going on" to change their political thinking, but i believe what you go on to say in your post is premature ... <i>We have welcomed what we perceive as a weaking of the power older evangelicals hold over the GOP. If the GOP is going to be saved, we feel that the stranglehold of the Religious Right must be broken. Young evangelicals, more flexible in their thinking and more willing to redefine themselves, will actually increase their voice as both sides seek their votes.</i> i'll go back to what i have said in comments elsewhere ... people like you need to stand up and be noticed by the republican-voting blocs with whom you disagree ... if the participation of young people in past elections is any indicator, i wouldn't hold my breath for a republican policy makeover at the hands of 20-something evangelical christians. btw ... here is the link to the original article ... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2004406277&zsection_id=2003956730&slug=evangvote11m&date=20080511 i love the last quote of the seattle times article …

Braun, the seminary student, said he’s not totally committed to any candidate yet.

“I just keep thinking, if Jesus were alive now, he wouldn’t necessarily be voting Republican,” he said.

good to know young christians are examining their faith in a global context and that their self-righteousness is still intact.

the article indicates that these young people are “leaving” the gop for a multitude of reasons … some of them because mccain isn’t a proven evangelical conservative …

Shane Claiborne, a Philadelphia Christian activist and author of “Jesus for President: Politics for Ordinary Radicals,” has a different name for these folks: “political misfits.”

Claiborne has traveled around the country the past several years, speaking and preaching mostly to college-age Christians who are “both socially conservative and globally aware.” That makes them disenchanted with both major parties, he said.

“It’s not about liberal or conservative, or Democrats or Republicans,” he said. “I don’t think it’s a new evangelical left. … There’s a new evangelical stuck-in-the-middle.”

UW communications professor David Domke said some young evangelicals are breaking with the GOP for the same reasons many people broke from the party in the 2006 legislative elections — the unpopular war in Iraq; the Bush administration’s abysmal approval ratings; or, now, because of the tanking economy.

Others broke from the party when John McCain, who hasn’t held much appeal for evangelicals in the past, became the presumptive nominee.

yes, the article says other young people say there is “something more going on” to change their political thinking, but i believe what you go on to say in your post is premature …

We have welcomed what we perceive as a weaking of the power older evangelicals hold over the GOP. If the GOP is going to be saved, we feel that the stranglehold of the Religious Right must be broken. Young evangelicals, more flexible in their thinking and more willing to redefine themselves, will actually increase their voice as both sides seek their votes.

i’ll go back to what i have said in comments elsewhere … people like you need to stand up and be noticed by the republican-voting blocs with whom you disagree … if the participation of young people in past elections is any indicator, i wouldn’t hold my breath for a republican policy makeover at the hands of 20-something evangelical christians.

btw … here is the link to the original article …

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2004406277&zsection_id=2003956730&slug=evangvote11m&date=20080511

]]> By: Ames http://acandidworld.com/2008/07/16/the-evangelical-re-invention-of-john-mccain-and-the-sad-paradox-of-fundamentalist-family-values/#comment-4489 Ames Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:23:44 +0000 http://acandidworld.wordpress.com/?p=413#comment-4489 PC, first I'd never insult your friends & their beliefs, or your own, and I'm glad you didn't read an insult into my slight against "evangelicals." As Collin pointed out a while ago, I need a better term for what I use the term to mean, but when I refer to evangelicals I refer not to "those who evangelize" but rather to those for whom evangelizing, and evangelizing by conversion & politicking rather than good works, is the only pursuit in the world that matters. I refer to, for example, Mike Huckabee: not to all individuals who think their religion is best, but only to those who take that belief to its extreme and try to ram their faith down everyone else's throat with whatever tool they can find. PC, first I’d never insult your friends & their beliefs, or your own, and I’m glad you didn’t read an insult into my slight against “evangelicals.” As Collin pointed out a while ago, I need a better term for what I use the term to mean, but when I refer to evangelicals I refer not to “those who evangelize” but rather to those for whom evangelizing, and evangelizing by conversion & politicking rather than good works, is the only pursuit in the world that matters. I refer to, for example, Mike Huckabee: not to all individuals who think their religion is best, but only to those who take that belief to its extreme and try to ram their faith down everyone else’s throat with whatever tool they can find.

]]>