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	<title>Comments on: No Affirmative Action for the Willfully Ignorant: UC System Refuses Credit for Christian Classes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/</link>
	<description>Democracy in America</description>
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		<title>By: didionsmommy</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/#comment-5324</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[didionsmommy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=1371#comment-5324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i just want to clarify ...

a &quot;secondary school&quot; is a high school. the issue is not about transferring credit from a christian college to the UC; it is about christian high schools wanting freedom to design their own curriculum and then getting bragging rights about how many of their students are later admitted to UC.

the christian high schools want it both ways ... as do many parents ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i just want to clarify &#8230;</p>
<p>a &#8220;secondary school&#8221; is a high school. the issue is not about transferring credit from a christian college to the UC; it is about christian high schools wanting freedom to design their own curriculum and then getting bragging rights about how many of their students are later admitted to UC.</p>
<p>the christian high schools want it both ways &#8230; as do many parents &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s the Thought that Counts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Updates in scientific literacy</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/#comment-5323</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[It&#8217;s the Thought that Counts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Updates in scientific literacy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=1371#comment-5323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] unqualified as a result of their having attended Christian schools. The schools in question taught many classes that were extremely Bible-centric, to the exclusion of nearly all other content, making it [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] unqualified as a result of their having attended Christian schools. The schools in question taught many classes that were extremely Bible-centric, to the exclusion of nearly all other content, making it [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/#comment-5320</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 04:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=1371#comment-5320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pleading &quot;my first amendment hurts&quot; is not an immediate pass to get to strict scrutiny.  First amendment doctrine is muddled, but in general, the standards of review track the EPC categories of &quot;strict scrutiny&quot; and &quot;rational basis,&quot; where &quot;content neutral&quot; regulations receive r.b. review and viewpoint discrimination is pretty much going to fail regardless of any argument pushed in its defense... making it somewhat similar to strict scrutiny.

Plaintiffs waived the viewpoint discrimination claim because the attorney said, explicitly, &quot;we&#039;re not going to argue animus,&quot; which is the term the judge in this case used to refer to viewpoint discrimination.

Fail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pleading &#8220;my first amendment hurts&#8221; is not an immediate pass to get to strict scrutiny.  First amendment doctrine is muddled, but in general, the standards of review track the EPC categories of &#8220;strict scrutiny&#8221; and &#8220;rational basis,&#8221; where &#8220;content neutral&#8221; regulations receive r.b. review and viewpoint discrimination is pretty much going to fail regardless of any argument pushed in its defense&#8230; making it somewhat similar to strict scrutiny.</p>
<p>Plaintiffs waived the viewpoint discrimination claim because the attorney said, explicitly, &#8220;we&#8217;re not going to argue animus,&#8221; which is the term the judge in this case used to refer to viewpoint discrimination.</p>
<p>Fail.</p>
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		<title>By: Gotchaye</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/#comment-5319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gotchaye]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 03:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=1371#comment-5319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not any sort of lawyer, but isn&#039;t strict scrutiny a standard used to judge the legality of government policies which actually -do- conflict with a constitutional principle (taken as an absolute)?  Enforcement of some sort of gag order on a newspaper would be subject to strict scrutiny - the freedom of the press -is- being infringed, and strict scrutiny establishes whether or not the policy shall be deemed legal anyway.

Here, it seems to me, there&#039;s no infringement of the freedom of speech, or of &#039;political viewpoints&#039;, to use the term Ames used.  If &#039;standards of excellence&#039; are &#039;content-neutral&#039;, then it&#039;s just a law like any other and only needs to make a minimal amount of sense to be found constitutional.

What I&#039;m confused about is how the plaintiffs &#039;accidentally waived&#039; their right to try to argue for viewpoint discrimination.  Regardless, it looks like, whatever the merits, the plaintiffs were apparently not even arguing that a constitutional right had been violated, so strict scrutiny wouldn&#039;t have come into it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not any sort of lawyer, but isn&#8217;t strict scrutiny a standard used to judge the legality of government policies which actually -do- conflict with a constitutional principle (taken as an absolute)?  Enforcement of some sort of gag order on a newspaper would be subject to strict scrutiny &#8211; the freedom of the press -is- being infringed, and strict scrutiny establishes whether or not the policy shall be deemed legal anyway.</p>
<p>Here, it seems to me, there&#8217;s no infringement of the freedom of speech, or of &#8216;political viewpoints&#8217;, to use the term Ames used.  If &#8216;standards of excellence&#8217; are &#8216;content-neutral&#8217;, then it&#8217;s just a law like any other and only needs to make a minimal amount of sense to be found constitutional.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m confused about is how the plaintiffs &#8216;accidentally waived&#8217; their right to try to argue for viewpoint discrimination.  Regardless, it looks like, whatever the merits, the plaintiffs were apparently not even arguing that a constitutional right had been violated, so strict scrutiny wouldn&#8217;t have come into it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/#comment-5318</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 03:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=1371#comment-5318</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m confused by that ruling.  I thought any claims regarding the 1st Amendment automatically triggered strict scrutiny, not rational basis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m confused by that ruling.  I thought any claims regarding the 1st Amendment automatically triggered strict scrutiny, not rational basis.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/#comment-5322</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=1371#comment-5322</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: Progressive Conservative and the slippery slope.


Reading through the judgement, one of the things that comes out is that in fact they don&#039;t just refuse to recognize the classes, they actually send the schools feedback on how to improve them. So for example in the case of the Government  module Ames mentions above, they sent a letter to the school asking for clarification of certain issues  (like why they couldn&#039;t find any record of the textbook), but the school failed to respond, something which made them look a bit ridiculous in court.

The point I&#039;m making is, there&#039;s a dialogue between the university and the schools, backed up by the law, so we can&#039;t slide too far that way. On the other side, the restrictions the university imposes aren&#039;t really about measuring the quality of the modules - they can&#039;t really do that - but making sure that they cover the basics. I don&#039;t think they&#039;re going to suddenly start throwing out schools because the lecturer is a dull prick, for example.

(Actually I may blog this myself with a more in-depth look at the content of the statement latter, i.e. to add some technical play-by-play to Ames&#039; excellent colour).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Progressive Conservative and the slippery slope.</p>
<p>Reading through the judgement, one of the things that comes out is that in fact they don&#8217;t just refuse to recognize the classes, they actually send the schools feedback on how to improve them. So for example in the case of the Government  module Ames mentions above, they sent a letter to the school asking for clarification of certain issues  (like why they couldn&#8217;t find any record of the textbook), but the school failed to respond, something which made them look a bit ridiculous in court.</p>
<p>The point I&#8217;m making is, there&#8217;s a dialogue between the university and the schools, backed up by the law, so we can&#8217;t slide too far that way. On the other side, the restrictions the university imposes aren&#8217;t really about measuring the quality of the modules &#8211; they can&#8217;t really do that &#8211; but making sure that they cover the basics. I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re going to suddenly start throwing out schools because the lecturer is a dull prick, for example.</p>
<p>(Actually I may blog this myself with a more in-depth look at the content of the statement latter, i.e. to add some technical play-by-play to Ames&#8217; excellent colour).</p>
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		<title>By: Progressive Conservative</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/08/15/no-affirmative-action-for-the-willfully-ignorant-uc-system-refuses-credit-for-christian-classes/#comment-5321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Progressive Conservative]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=1371#comment-5321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I have no problem with tougher standards for college curriculum and the right of any school to not recognize classes from another school, this is slippery slope territory. I suspect if they started looking hard at quality content a lot of professors would be out of a job, or revising their syllabus. I had a few electives in college that were high school level learning at best. I felt like I needed a refund after the semester ended.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I have no problem with tougher standards for college curriculum and the right of any school to not recognize classes from another school, this is slippery slope territory. I suspect if they started looking hard at quality content a lot of professors would be out of a job, or revising their syllabus. I had a few electives in college that were high school level learning at best. I felt like I needed a refund after the semester ended.</p>
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