<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: PUMA-Watch: Conspiracy Theorists Still Trying to Disqualify the President Elect</title>
	<atom:link href="http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/</link>
	<description>Democracy in America</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 05:50:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: How the Birthers Keep This Going &#171; Submitted to a Candid World</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-23936</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How the Birthers Keep This Going &#171; Submitted to a Candid World]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 15:05:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-23936</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] clearly wrong (and please forgive the legacy tags that make this post a little hard to read). This may stop [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] clearly wrong (and please forgive the legacy tags that make this post a little hard to read). This may stop [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Karel</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-12281</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-12281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apparently a LOT of rational people can still be wrong.  Investigating Obama&#039;s citizenship isn&#039;t the best use of our time, but it certainly doesn&#039;t constitute a total waste of time.  I, for one, WOULD like to see his birth certificate, whether it&#039;s from Hawaii, Kansas, Kenya or Indonesia. I&#039;m a retired lawyer from Washington, D.C., I&#039;m well-educated, well-read, well-traveled and completely rational.  And I am not alone in wanting this information made public.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently a LOT of rational people can still be wrong.  Investigating Obama&#8217;s citizenship isn&#8217;t the best use of our time, but it certainly doesn&#8217;t constitute a total waste of time.  I, for one, WOULD like to see his birth certificate, whether it&#8217;s from Hawaii, Kansas, Kenya or Indonesia. I&#8217;m a retired lawyer from Washington, D.C., I&#8217;m well-educated, well-read, well-traveled and completely rational.  And I am not alone in wanting this information made public.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Marc Rich Is SO 2000: Eric Holder as Obama&#8217;s Attorney General &#171; Submitted to a Candid World</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-10843</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marc Rich Is SO 2000: Eric Holder as Obama&#8217;s Attorney General &#171; Submitted to a Candid World]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-10843</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the occasional invasion by PUMAs, A Candid World&#8217;s readers aren&#8217;t afraid to tackle tough issues and want to know how [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the occasional invasion by PUMAs, A Candid World&#8217;s readers aren&#8217;t afraid to tackle tough issues and want to know how [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Internet Extremism: the Exception, or the Rule? &#171; Submitted to a Candid World</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-10842</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Internet Extremism: the Exception, or the Rule? &#171; Submitted to a Candid World]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 23:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-10842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] communities. Just replace &#8220;no blacks&#8221; with &#8220;no evolutionists&#8221; or &#8220;no O-Bots,&#8221; and you&#8217;ve got the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] communities. Just replace &#8220;no blacks&#8221; with &#8220;no evolutionists&#8221; or &#8220;no O-Bots,&#8221; and you&#8217;ve got the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lanfranc</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-8096</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lanfranc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 13:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-8096</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JeffM said,

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The only difference between common law and natural law is one relates to subjects while the other relates to citizens.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

And with that, I think we reached the stage where any further discussion is pointless.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JeffM said,</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The only difference between common law and natural law is one relates to subjects while the other relates to citizens.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>And with that, I think we reached the stage where any further discussion is pointless.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Internet Extremism: the Exception, or the Rule?</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-8189</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Internet Extremism: the Exception, or the Rule?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 11:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-8189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] communities. Just replace &#8220;no blacks&#8221; with &#8220;no evolutionists&#8221; or &#8220;no O-Bots,&#8221; and you&#8217;ve got the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] communities. Just replace &#8220;no blacks&#8221; with &#8220;no evolutionists&#8221; or &#8220;no O-Bots,&#8221; and you&#8217;ve got the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-8098</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 05:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-8098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and stop quoting Blackstone like he&#039;s a freaking statute book. He&#039;s a commentator that summarized (gisted) the British common law as it existed during his time. He&#039;s not binding an any court, anywhere.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and stop quoting Blackstone like he&#8217;s a freaking statute book. He&#8217;s a commentator that summarized (gisted) the British common law as it existed during his time. He&#8217;s not binding an any court, anywhere.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ames</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-8097</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ames]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 05:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-8097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is very important. Common law is not natural law. In fact, they&#039;re quite distinct. Natural law is that which is &quot;universally discoverable&quot; by logic: sort of a legal set of first principles. Its invocation is rare, and inapplicable in this case.

Onto common law. British common law of 1800 no longer governs on its own force. If it&#039;s preserved, it&#039;s preserved by explicit incorporation into the Constitution or statute. The common law was received from England subject to legislative amendment, clarification, and repudiation. Assuming &lt;i&gt;arguendo&lt;/i&gt; that British common law on &quot;natural born citizenship&quot;  was received and remains undisturbed, British common law did not speak to dual citizenship, since the concept (as in, the ability to legally hold two citizenships) was not extant at the birth of the Union.

Souter&#039;s dissent in &lt;i&gt;Alden v. Maine&lt;/i&gt;, available &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/98-436.ZD.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, has a nice, long, and stirring account of what natural law and common law are, in the context of sovereign immunity. If you&#039;re going to bandy those terms about please learn what they mean. It&#039;s clear Donofrio didn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very important. Common law is not natural law. In fact, they&#8217;re quite distinct. Natural law is that which is &#8220;universally discoverable&#8221; by logic: sort of a legal set of first principles. Its invocation is rare, and inapplicable in this case.</p>
<p>Onto common law. British common law of 1800 no longer governs on its own force. If it&#8217;s preserved, it&#8217;s preserved by explicit incorporation into the Constitution or statute. The common law was received from England subject to legislative amendment, clarification, and repudiation. Assuming <i>arguendo</i> that British common law on &#8220;natural born citizenship&#8221;  was received and remains undisturbed, British common law did not speak to dual citizenship, since the concept (as in, the ability to legally hold two citizenships) was not extant at the birth of the Union.</p>
<p>Souter&#8217;s dissent in <i>Alden v. Maine</i>, available <a href="http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/98-436.ZD.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, has a nice, long, and stirring account of what natural law and common law are, in the context of sovereign immunity. If you&#8217;re going to bandy those terms about please learn what they mean. It&#8217;s clear Donofrio didn&#8217;t.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JeffM</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-8100</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JeffM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-8100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lanfranc said:

&quot;Jeff, you seem to be a little confused here. First you pull out Blackstone in an attempt to use him as support for your definition of “natural born”. When it turns out that he actually says the complete opposite of what you want him to, suddenly you drop him like he’s on fire and pull out de Vattel instead. &quot;

I am not confused. Both laws clearly follow Natural Law, i.e. LAW OF NATIONS, i.e. Common Law.

And that law is the same then as it is in many countries today, including the U.K. and U.S. (NBC vs Citizen)

Citizens inherit citizenship from the father. Citizen, i.e. Allegiance, of the father is passed down to the son.

This is the same for Vattel. This is the same for Blackstone.

The only difference between common law and natural law is one relates to subjects while the other relates to citizens.

One is renouncable. The other is not.  That&#039;s why both are key to Article II.

I can do a side-by-side comparison of both if it will help you understand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lanfranc said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Jeff, you seem to be a little confused here. First you pull out Blackstone in an attempt to use him as support for your definition of “natural born”. When it turns out that he actually says the complete opposite of what you want him to, suddenly you drop him like he’s on fire and pull out de Vattel instead. &#8221;</p>
<p>I am not confused. Both laws clearly follow Natural Law, i.e. LAW OF NATIONS, i.e. Common Law.</p>
<p>And that law is the same then as it is in many countries today, including the U.K. and U.S. (NBC vs Citizen)</p>
<p>Citizens inherit citizenship from the father. Citizen, i.e. Allegiance, of the father is passed down to the son.</p>
<p>This is the same for Vattel. This is the same for Blackstone.</p>
<p>The only difference between common law and natural law is one relates to subjects while the other relates to citizens.</p>
<p>One is renouncable. The other is not.  That&#8217;s why both are key to Article II.</p>
<p>I can do a side-by-side comparison of both if it will help you understand.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lanfranc</title>
		<link>http://acandidworld.com/2008/12/03/puma-watch-conspiracy-theorists-still-trying-to-disqualify-the-president-elect/#comment-8101</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lanfranc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 00:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.acandidworld.net/?p=4050#comment-8101</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff, you seem to be a little confused here. First you pull out Blackstone in an attempt to use him as support for your definition of &quot;natural born&quot;. When it turns out that he actually says the complete opposite of what you want him to, suddenly you drop him like he&#039;s on fire and pull out de Vattel instead.

However, I don&#039;t think this has made your position any stronger, because the juxtaposition of Blackstone and de Vattel actually highlights a very important issue here: That these two contemporary writers have a diametrically opposed interpretation of what exactly it is that gives a person his nationality - Blackstone&#039;s &lt;i&gt;jus soli&lt;/i&gt; versus de Vattel&#039;s &lt;i&gt;jus sanguinis&lt;/i&gt;. In other words, both of these interpretations existed in the 18th century, and both of them may have influenced the Founding Fathers. To determine which one precisely, to the extent that&#039;s possible at all, one would have to do a comprehensive study of all the source materials surrounding the genesis of the Constitution - letters, commentaries, Convention records, and so on.

Although this would obviously be rather a complex project, I would suggest that it would lead to significantly better results than your current approach. And if you&#039;re lucky, someone may already have done it for you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, you seem to be a little confused here. First you pull out Blackstone in an attempt to use him as support for your definition of &#8220;natural born&#8221;. When it turns out that he actually says the complete opposite of what you want him to, suddenly you drop him like he&#8217;s on fire and pull out de Vattel instead.</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t think this has made your position any stronger, because the juxtaposition of Blackstone and de Vattel actually highlights a very important issue here: That these two contemporary writers have a diametrically opposed interpretation of what exactly it is that gives a person his nationality &#8211; Blackstone&#8217;s <i>jus soli</i> versus de Vattel&#8217;s <i>jus sanguinis</i>. In other words, both of these interpretations existed in the 18th century, and both of them may have influenced the Founding Fathers. To determine which one precisely, to the extent that&#8217;s possible at all, one would have to do a comprehensive study of all the source materials surrounding the genesis of the Constitution &#8211; letters, commentaries, Convention records, and so on.</p>
<p>Although this would obviously be rather a complex project, I would suggest that it would lead to significantly better results than your current approach. And if you&#8217;re lucky, someone may already have done it for you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

